On liberty and responsibility

Liberty comes with responsibility, otherwise the liberty is restricted or lost.

There is no escaping it, most citizens are part of a greater entity called the State, subject to the laws of that State, which forms the contract between the citizen and the State. The contract sets out liberties such as the liberty to freedom of speech, contractual duties like the paying of tax, and penalties for breaking a rule of the contract, a fine or a restriction of a liberty such as imprisonment.

The internet is a new medium of communication, a tool that remains at this time lightly burdened by contractual laws defining what the citizen can and cannot do upon it.  The citizen has many liberties in how and what they express on the internet, yet these liberties come with personal responsibility.  When the few abuse a liberty to harm, lie and steal about or from another citizen, and the many through apathy or active encouragement allow this behaviour to continue and grow, then the liberty becomes restricted or lost.

In my own personal experience, when citizens such as Nathaniel Harris and Kris Costa, writes upon the internet dishonest stories about me, linking me to an innocent man called Julian Vayne, with the knowledge and hope that Order of Nine Angles (ONA) vigilantes might attack Vayne, then it is an abuse of a liberty given to the internet.

When a father (RD) and his two children are pursued by a baying mob of thousands of self-appointed vigilantes desiring their abduction and destruction based upon a false Satanic Ritual Abuse narrative, then a liberty given to the internet is threatened.

When internet companies such as Google profit from linking advertising to content promoting hate, or in the case of the Hampstead SRA hoax pimping a false narrative, the faces and names of abused children, then a liberty of the internet is going to be lost.

When despite dozens of referrals and complaints to an internet company called Patreon about illegal and child abusive content, that clearly breaches its own terms and conditions, and its own moderation systems appear incapable of speedily dealing with it, then the internet suffers a loss of a liberty.

All liberties come with responsibility, or they are restricted and lost.  A citizen that loves a liberty, has a responsibility to treat others with the same liberty, and also defend that liberty from being abused.  When the State brings about changes to the contract to restrict or remove liberties previously enjoyed by the citizen on the internet, it is no use complaining, the citizen harvests what they sow.

69 thoughts on “On liberty and responsibility

  1. I value liberty, that’s why oppose the concept of hate speech or “promoting hate”. It’s meaningless. Who decides what hate means here? From what I’ve seen of social media companies and entities like the European Union, hate tends to mean anything that hurts the wrong people’s feelings, which often happens by expression of wrongthink. I say it’s best to stick to the real problems, like actual scams or con artistry, doxing, or the distribution of child pornography.

      1. If you mean hate speech then in theory that would be the case but it’s not. It is, transparently, speech control. It’s a means of dividing speech into acceptable and unacceptable categories, whereas for those who value liberty there are none. Those categories apply to actions, not words. I think it’s best that we leave others to treat each other like decent human beings without speech codes, and respond to actual actions that, say, lead to harm or undermine privacy.

    1. “I say it’s best to stick to the real problems, like actual scams or con artistry, doxing, or the distribution of child pornography.”

      Interesting you should mention this, as there was this paragraph

      “When despite dozens of referrals and complaints to an internet company called Patreon about illegal and child abusive content, that clearly breaches its own terms and conditions, and its own moderation systems appear incapable of speedily dealing with it, then the internet suffers a loss of a liberty.”

      That company actually fulfills all three conditions with its continued hosting of the illegal fundraising efforts of the criminals who actually started the entire hoax, and who continue to host what can only be described as sick CP by proxy, the children’s illegally distributed videos where they describe what they suffered (hint- they didn’t, they were literally tortured into making the false statements about their father and other innocent citizens by a sick individual who it appears has some questions to be raised about his own beliefs if what he was coaching the children into saying on video is any indication)

      – scams or con artistry- TICK
      – doxing- TICK
      – the distribution of child pornography- TICK

      I really cant see why you are so dead set against this post, when you go on to say ” I think it’s best that we leave others to treat each other like decent human beings without speech codes, and respond to actual actions that, say, lead to harm or undermine privacy.”

      Where the people that are mentioned have done exactly that- done actual actions that lead to many being harmed (some have had to literally move houses to escape, others continue literally years after this should have been stopped to have their names dragged through the mud as `murderers’ and `baby eaters’),
      One company mentioned above continues to host a fundraiser to support the living expenses of wanted criminals on the run overseas, and some of the supporters of this hoax have public called for the tracking down of the children with the express purpose of kidnapping them to return them to one of these wanted criminals!

      Thankfully another company they attempted to raise funds through (although slow to respond at first) did finally pull an exact copy of this fundraiser down and returned the moneys raised back to the original donors- they had managed to raise several thousand dollars by that stage unfortunately)

      1. I appreciate you pointing that out, and I agree that it’s terrible that Patreon isn’t doing anything, but I’m not “dead set against” this post as you seem to think. I just have a problem with I think is an implication that “people promoting hate is a problem on the Internet”, which sounds like what I hear from people who want greater central control over the Internet under the pretext of “hate speech”. Not that I immediately assume that this is Satanicviews’ angle, I just feel inclined to question him on that point that’s all. I hope you understand.

      2. Well said Steved. A wonderful tool such as the internet has been misused to do harm to others, and so it has now become a major talking point in the media and amongst politicians that regulation is required. At first, it was hoped that users would be responsible with their use of the internet, and then when this failed, it was hoped internet companies could self-moderate their own content, and this failed too. It then naturally follows that the State is going to legislate and thus the liberties previously enjoyed on the internet will be restricted. The Hampstead SRA Hoax is an example of how the internet has been misused and abused in order to harm innocent people and children.

  2. Gosh. Can you not read? I offered my opinion that you are just a dupe being played off by JV. He did make a complaint btw but it was not upheld. Funnily enough police have concluded I am being targeted by the paedophile ring that ‘X’ disclosed about.

    Your posts are a permanent record on the internet that you are bullying genuine victims. The truth will be out one day – sooner than you think perhaps. It is you that is putting yourself in danger with all your lies, whether they originate with you or are simply being repeated.

    1. Nathaniel, you made up a fictional story incorporating “X” and yourself, then used that to attack your own family, your former associates in your religion, and most recently myself.

      Yes, this blog is a permanent record. I accept the risk that my views upset people, but it is unjust that someone such as JV suffers because people such as you and Kris Costa falsely give people such as the ONA an impression that he is me.

      1. Gosh. You accuse me of lying? That was not the conclusion of the courts, btw. It is a lie spread by those who were involved in Colin Batley’s cult though.

        Anyway. I’ve warned you that you are being used. Heed it or not.

      2. You have nothing to do with the Batley cult, you weaved a falsehood in that you were involved, then used that as a pretext and vehicle to attack innocent victims with further fictions.

      3. Really? And how did you come to this conclusion? Show your working, please.

        Look, I’ve warned you. You are spreading dangerous lies on behalf of paedophiles. And you are boring.

        This conversation is over.

      4. OK one more clue for you.. I don’t want to add too much as displaying the humiliation that my life became due to these scum is, understandably I hope, something I would rather avoid. Also e are still hopeful this ill all reach crown court one day – there ere so many victims of the Batley group there are sure to be further disclosures from someone at some time in the future. I have already been cornered by you into revealing the truth about JV’s complaint and the police’s conclusion. This is a risk I really would rather not have taken – but the lies you are spreading put myself and other innocent people in danger.

        If I had been found guilty of emotionally abusing a child and making them tell horrible lies – surely I would be in jail? After all, there are arrest warrants for Abe and Ella, are there not? Or am I mistaken? I’ll leave you to ponder the logic of this.

      5. To my knowledge there are as yet no European Arrest Warrants issued for Abraham Christie and Ella Draper, which is frustrating and surprising.

        At this moment all I am interested in is that people stop linking me to JV.

      6. I have no religion and I have not had any dealings with the ONA. They are an order that includes a convicted sex criminal, as you have pointed out in your own posts. My opinion is that this makes the entire order suspect for acommodating such an individual.

      7. I personally dislike the ONA, and would rather they were kicked out of my religion, afterall they have put it on record they are not Satanists.

  3. I have no idea about the ONA either. Are tere really ONA vigilantes? Ooh how scary. Not. Is that some rubbish JV told you? An attempt to play both yourself and the ONA off to target me perhaps? How boring. Same tactics different day. I suggest you grow up, piss off, and stop dragging my name into your sick fantasies. You are a grunt who impresses nobody of any worth, least of all the police.

      1. He has failed to keep my trust on this matter. It seems we will have to find out in court. All these dangerous lies he has repeated here have been forwarded to the police.

      2. I fail to see why you have a problem with this post. SV is simply stating how both you and Kris Costa are saying he is Julian Vayne, which runs the risk of ONA attacking Vayne.
        Do you disagree with that?

      3. “I fail to see why you have a problem with this post. ”

        We all have failings, Jake Blake.

        I suspect yours includes the ability to see what you see – to comprehend what is really there right before your eyes without defeating yourself with intellectual obfuscation. Garbage in and garbage out. You, too, are advised to back off before your online gossip gets you into serious trouble.. and don’t go squealing that I’m in any way among those habitually making making threats on your life as a consequence of your misguided online behaviour.

        And have you considered what consequences this could have for the rest of your life if charges are brought against you? Because if we get the chance it is exactly what we are going to do. We have had enough of you gaslighting sockpuppets, whoever it is who has their hands up your backsides.

        We are parents prepared to take such risks to protect our children, if that is what we have to do. Are you really so sure of what you are saying about us?

  4. Thanks for your reply Aleph, and despite our apparent differences, I think we both actually want the same things. I don’t WANT more government control over the internet (indeed that is IMHO a very slippery slope indeed) but unless the major (and minor) hosting sites actually start to respond to complaints in a timely and appropriate manner, they(the various governments) will certainly push for (and get) much more restrictive laws in place that will result in exactly that.

    And unfortunately, “people promoting hate is a problem on the Internet” has (and increasingly becoming even more so) a problem, mostly in the major social chat sites but has been dragged into the media spotlight with the US presidential election and `pizzagate’ now having a strong media presence, especially after the takedown of the armed pizzagate vigilante.

  5. OK you have my trust. for now at least. I am willing to take you on face value and believe you are acting in response to deliberately misleading information fed to you by unsavoury people.

    You might note that the occult ‘scene’ seems completely indifferent to the ONA harbouring a dangerous sex offender. You certainly have your work cut out expecting any appropriate action from within the LHP. You say they are so blatant as to have child abuse narratives on their website (I have not looked as I would find it distressing).

    You might also not the complete illogic that anyone in my position would approach the ONA expecting their ‘vigilantes’ to target an alleged sex offender. Nobody would expect to get the desired result, surely? What NONCE-SENSE!

    Can’t find you on FB as you have a common name and I removed your posts on my page. If you find me and message me we can talk in private. I can then offer you some evidence not to be shared publicly.

    I will add here that I shared some information with Krista Kosta, privately and exclusively, which the paedophile ring then acted on within minutes. I do not know who ‘she’ is. It appears we both got ‘played’.

    We might not agree on everything but it would be good to see an end to the trolling of me by yourself and those on HR – because that is what it is, however ‘good’ you believe your misguided intentions to be. Without this I will have no need to respond and you can cease to undermine your entire campaign by your actions against me.

    1. My argument with ONA goes back many years, and my most recent taking them to task in relation to the harming of children has upset a few of them, so they are now hunting for me.

      Kris Costa is a manipulative liar who had to start backtracking on a number of claims she has made in recent months including that I am JV, and her claims in relation to the RD children being involved in a Audi car advert.

      I won’t be looking at your SRA allegations until later this year, then I will contact you via Facebook.

      At this moment my focus is upon the Hampstead SRA hoax, and all I wanted is that the name of JV be removed from being associated with me for his own safety.

      1. Then stop abusing me at his bequest and spreading dangerous lies. Simple. I deserve an apology from you, as does Jasmine. If you can prove your trustworthiness there will be one in return. Your refusal to act appropriately here has also been forwarded to the police. If we must – we will indeed be seeking to press charges against you. What part of this is so hard for you to understand, young man?

      2. Nathaniel, there is nothing to apologise for, and I desire no apologies. I just wanted you to remove the connection between me and JV. As to your SRA allegations, I shall be addressing those later this year, and I will be in contact with you via Facebook at that time.

    2. Not sure why you think that anything you share with Kris Costa is private. In fact, I have a screenshot of your message begging her to remove your public posts re: the child you coached. And her answer to you is still on the blog as she’s such a moron that she hasn’t removed it yet.
      Furthermore, you talk a big game about “evidence” but have never produced any. BTW, newspaper reports about random criminals is not evidence of a conspiracy. You also go on and on about the vulnerable young person, who, in yours and Jasmine de Ville’s custody was induced to make false claims of ritual abuse against people you dislike. You claim that it is untrue that your actions led to JdeV losing custody of this person, so why don’t you post the care/custody proceedings online with the names redacted. You can’t really claim that you’re trying to protect the young person’s privacy since you have repeatedly “outed” him on numerous blogs, including your own.
      I was the person who knew you had been arrested last autumn. And how did I know this? Because the two people (neither of whom is either JV or NW) who made complaints to the police about you were informed of your arrest. Your online harassment and lies about people are potentially criminal offences. There is actually a crime number which a number of people have been given, in order to collate your activities with the police in Bristol. Far from being a victim of some shadowy “satanic” conspiracy, you are yourself a bully, a fantasist, a stalker, and a pathological liar.

      1. After a 9 month fact hearing we were found innocent of coaching any child. This comment of yours – which I believe you know full well to be endangering – has also been forwarded to the police. We politely request you desist from this endangering and distressing behaviour.

      2. Nathaniel, may I suggest that if you find this matter distressing, you stop posting here. I am sure you have better things to do? As to my posts here, nothing is illegal. You have made public statements, which have been repudiated and replied to. Criticism of allegations and actions you make is not illegal nor harrassing. The usual harrassment complaints have defences against them, including reasonable conduct and prevention of crime, and anything posted here is within the law and those defences, You are of course welcome to refer anything here to the police and lawyers, and they can contact me via this blog if necessary.

      3. I have not presented newspaper reports of random criminal though, ‘Pallas Athena’ – your ‘conclusions’ here are so in favour of the ALLEGED abusers that have NEVER been fully investigated – as they claim – it is no wonder your online activity has lead some people to assume you are – yourself – engaged in cultic child abuse. Nor that you get death threats. You should tread very carefully around such matters as these, not just for the safety of others but for yourself. Don’t spread dangerous gossip or the consequences might be most regretful for you – and that will not be my fault, especially when I have put myself available for respectful discussion.

        See also my update below regarding our upheld IPCC complaint.

        We will not put up with online abuse such as you are spreading. Retract your misguided allegations against us or when the time is right AT THE VERY LEAST we will wring you dry for compensation and damages

        .. Or is that perhaps the least of your worries? For all I know you might be more than just some misguided dupe with delusions of being some kind of Satanic vigilante. You might also be among those who actually abused X in the first place. There are so many people involved, coerced and implicated how is anyone to know which of them you might even be?

        I suppose if you really WERE involved in organized child abuse you would see it as more to your advantage to leave this libel standing. After all, WHEN the truth gets out you could be serving the rest of your life in jail.

        I guess we’ll ust have to sit back, observe what you do, and come to our own conclusions. Whether it would be appropriate to share them with the world is another matter entirely.

      4. Excuse the typos but you’ve really p*ssed me off. Once again I have been cornered by libel and slander into revealing PRIVATE information on a very delicate case. YOU ARE PUTTING INNOCENT PEOPLE IN DANGER.

    1. Hello Nathaniel, I have no problems about you criticising me, my only issue was you and others linking me to an innocent man JV. I need to keep my posts intact as the fiction you and others put out linking me to JV has been out there a long time and has been circulating putting JV in considerable danger of harm. You will need to speak to Hoaxtead about any content they have you disagree with. My thanks for removing any content linking me to JV.

      1. I am sad to hear you are not humble enough to correct your mistakes about me. You have been targeting an innocent man who has already suffered greatly. JV, however, is not innocent. He has been lying to you and I can prove it.

      2. All I wanted was JV name to be removed from association to me, and I thank you for doing that. However, my content has to remain in place as too many people now are running around thinking I am JV and so that content is designed to inform them I am not JV.

      3. That has nothing to do with me. You have been victimising myself and Jasmine, spreading dangerous lies that put innocent people in danger. What is so hard for you to understand, young man? I am beginning to suspect you must be JV after all – or certainly someone knowingly acting on his behalf. You have one week to make your public apology. This conversation is over.

  6. It can also be demonstrated – easily – that it was you who began this problem between us by your putting my name on ‘List 616’, and other posts on this blog, all of which the police have been alerted to. I am willing to accept that you made these errors in response to false information presented to you by JV and others who have been identified to the police as part of Colin Batley’s cul-de-sac cult.

    I have nothing to do with you being identified with JV, was I have already stated, and have reason to believe JV himself is responsible for all this confusion in an attempt to play us off against each other. I can share this with you in private or we can wait until we see you in court. Your choice. I am not lying when I tell you it was the police who approached me regarding this possibility, not the other way around.

    Rather than meddling in affairs you are not qualified to judge perhaps you could better spend your time exposing those who really have been dressing up in Satanic garb to terrify and abuse children.

    I am being very patient with you. I hope you do not push this too far. You seem like an intelligent chap who has been exploited by real abusers.

    1. List616 no longer exists. Your own SRA allegations will be explored with you later this year. As always, if you have evidence of harm to children, then the police is where you need to report it.

      1. Sigh. You are being very stupid. I can offer you proof that A) there is no JV ‘and’ my family – they are effectively one and the same. B) JV was lying to you about his being to ‘nice’ to go to the police. C) The police did not uphold his complaint.

        However you obviously do not care. Your agenda and ego are too overbearing for you to master. I have attempted to warn you but you have lost my trust. You seem far more concerned with drawing out an argument, possibly in the hope that more information ill be revealed as I attempt to defend my partner, her child and myself against your damaging lies.

        Am I to assume you are indeed be knowingly targeting the innocent? You are giving me little choice but to republish my statements about you being JV’s arse bandit.

        You can do the right thing or we will seek to prosecute. That is a promise.

      2. Our allegations are a matter for the police, not you, silly boy. You have no authority to pass judgement. You are at best a misguided vigilante and at worst knowingly supporting people who dress up in Satan outfits to rape disabled children. This you have clearly demonstrated by your behaviour.

  7. Now look – besides my dodgy keyboard you are causing me distress, and knowingly. There most definitely IS a law against that, as it seems you are determined to find out the hard way. This is going to be a steep learning curve for you.

    1. You’re going to have a problem convincing the authorities that you are a victim. A quick search through the wayback machine of your blog will give a clear picture of your years of harassment and threats. Moreover, people have been taking screenshots of your blog too. So even the stuff that you took down has been saved for potentially future legal action.

    2. If you were truly being caused distress here Nathaniel then why would you choose to stay here commenting and threatening SV with “You are giving me little choice but to republish my statements about you being JV’s arse bandit.”

      1. Salutations from San Diego.
        I intend to monitor and archive your comments within this blog as part of an independent online behavioral reconnaissance study for a special interest group, this comment is merely an extended courtesy to inform you that myself along with those interested from the group will follow your future comments.
        Thank you for this unique opportunity.
        Peace & Pander from California!

      2. Hi cerebraltraveller, I am unsure if I should be worried or honored by this interest in my blog comments, but you are of course welcome to use them for your study as you wish. Thanks for informing me.

      3. I se no reason for worry, you are providing a positive perspective on a vastly misunderstood cognitive process and I admire both your courage and determination.

  8. Since you have chosen to leave your misguided gossip published here it is only fair you at least allow me to update your grey matter.. one day it may matter.

    So many people are falling through the nets that are supposed to be there to protect us. When the system fails in cases of organized child abuse it is particularly tragic.

    The victims, being the children that are prostituted or any adult that cares for them and would gladly see the perpetrators imprisoned for life, are left entirely vulnerable when they need protecting the most. The stakes are high; the criminals make a lot of money from their crimes. The guilty can even be in a position to have the law on their side due to the systems omissions and failures to recognize disclosures.

    We know through the newspaper reports of those who are successfully prosecuted that it can sometimes take decades for the system to respond appropriately, be it the fault of police procedure or the failures of local authorities, meaning the danger of speaking up is extreme and their is no assurance of ever being heard. This is the same when the organized abuse is performed by a cult, as can be seen from newspaper reports of Colin Batley, Peter Petrauske, and others.

    Every system has failures – ask the designers of Windows, or any computer programmer. The system as a whole may be a positive development but when malign influences find weaknesses it needs updating.

    Tragic though events have been I am pleased to recognize that my complaint to the IPCC regarding their interviewing of ‘X’ in 2012 has been upheld.

    Police and social services failed to gain clear communication with X, causing this vulnerable person to panic. Without a direct disclosure from X there could be no investigation. And so the failures began, and the wheels of the system turned onwards..

    Thanks to my complaint this failure has been recognized, as has the need for changes which we are assured have put in place. At least. we have made it less likely for such failures to happen with other disabled children attempting to make independent disclosures to the police.

    Sadly, due to this too late recognition, ‘X’ is now in the ‘care’ of the very people his discloses might otherwise have put in prison. It has not been decided of any advantage to re-interview him at this time. There are practical reasons why – it is simply too late. X is very malleable and has been under the influence of some very dangerous people for several years without a moment of true safety. They have been removed from college, their life decisions made for them, and there might be nobody in their environment it would be safe to ask for help.

    It is also the case that publishing the entire response from the iPCC would mean making many unpleasant details of a very delicate situation a matter of public gossip. I am not prepared to do that.

    Nevertheless the case can be re-opened if new evidence is found, such as other witnesses or disclosures from other victims. There is a case and it has been recognized. It has a crime number and everything but the police are currently unable to make an advance.

    If anyone reading this post has information that could help the police regarding the abuses of certain people in the ‘occult community’, do provide it to them. Failures have been made in the past but the system is updating. The police will listen to you. There have been successful prosecutions and there will be more – but only if the right people find the bravery to come forward.

    1. “X is very malleable” – so why did you, by your own admission, show him photographs of people to “identify” them as paedophiles?

      1. Because this is a case that can be reopened at any time and all your online ‘gossip’ is potentially damaging. I have made myself clear in their communications published on my own blog. I have no desire to communicate with you and consider your actions harassment. Yes you have a crime number.

      2. I have my suspicion that you have – by now – several other crime numbers and investigations than either of us would know about. In which case it is my sincere hope that everyone with a complaint against you gets to see justice served. As far as I am concerned you all deserve to cry tears of blood for the rest of your pitiable lives.

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