Order of Nine Angles (ONA) confirm they are not Satanists

Satanicviews comment

A representative of the Order of Nine Angles (ONA) has responded to our recent Satanicviews blog post about them via one of their blogging sites, and confirms that they are not Satanists.  The article is as below:

https://abglodge.wordpress.com/2015/08/23/how-dumb-they-really-are-some-insignificant-comments-about-significant-amount-of-mundane-misconceptions/

As the ONA confirm they are not Satanists, a confirmation that can be found in various other ONA sources as well, it becomes unnecessary for us to offer arguments that ONA are not Satanists, though we still plan such arguments to deal with Reverse Christianity.  We offer their full article as below, link as per above, under the Creative Commons (CC) copyright license which the ONA tend to ascribe to in the distribution of their information.  We will respond to issues raised in that ONA article in a future post.

ONA article in response to Satanicviews

How Dumb They Really Are? (some insignificant comments about significant amount of mundane misconceptions)

Recently, We came across an article (Is ONA and RC Satanism?) written by the mundane Satanist who already wrote a couple of articles regarding ONA on previous occasions – like, for example, that one about nonsense such as “disbanding  ONA” etc.  This nonsense was well enough addressed by some other people, back then.  Now, the author, seems to be accepting their previous nonsense about “disbanding” ONA as the nonsense it was/is, because they treat ONA as still existing, being that they argue about/with it.

What fascinates Us, over and over again, when We read stuff like these, is the fact how shallow mundanes are and how they are incapable of grasping anything ONA – sometimes trying very hard to squeeze it into their narrow views, into their little black and white worlds. Also, We believe how they never bother to read numerous ONA writings dealing with, and explaining their usual misconceptions. Article in question is filled with these usual misconceptions and gives away very uninformed view of the Order of Nine Angles (like previous “disbanding” nonsense wasn’t good enough clue). This implies that the author either never honestly studied ONA (which takes some effort and time), or they simply lack any intellectual and emphatic skills to successfully fulfill such a task, as it is the case with the most mundanes.

We have no illusions that We will ever enlighten one of these characters by writing “responses” such as this one, so this is in no way serious attempt of arguing them or refuting some of their claims – it mainly serves as an example (amusing one) for those who are honestly interested in ONA – an example of how blind and clueless mundanes are.  What is especially discouraging in this case is the fact that comparing ONA with, and leveling it down to RC (reverse Christianity) is even greater misconception than previous “disbanding” nonsense. To be honest, some forms used by ONA, as presented in Black Book of Satan and similar works may look like something comparable with RC. However, these are only “forms” – not the ONA itself. Practical and esoteric meanings and purpose of these forms were  elaborated in different writings of the Order and its affiliates, many, many times. But, as we already mentioned, these Satanist are not even reading such material and/or are incapable of grasping it. There is one thing about which author of the article in question is right: ONA is not Satanism, or more precisely, ONA is not just Satanism:

The Order of Nine Angles (O9A, ONA) is a sinisterly-numinous mystic tradition: it is not now and never was either strictly satanist or strictly Left Hand Path, but uses ‘satanism’ and the LHP as ‘causal forms’; that is, as techniques/experiences/ordeals/challenges (amoral and otherwise) in a decades-long personal anados to engender in the initiate both esoteric, and exoteric, pathei mathos, and which pathei mathos is the beginning of wisdom. – O9A 101, Sinisterly-Numinous Tradition

Let us examine some of the statements written in this article from satanicviews blog:

The ONA is a philosophy invented by David Myatt in the 1970’s who synthesized his white supremacist and occult interests into a worldview that has been extensively added to by himself and his followers.

If nothing else this is oversimplifying of origins and  history, and very nature of ONA. According to Order’s own writings ONA IS philosophy, but philosophy of Anton Long. Now, those Satanist would instantly try to simplify this one as well by asserting how Anton Long is actually David Myatt. Well, Anton Long is not, nor he ever was a real person. From one perspective it is just a nym, evidently used by various people over decades – as suggested by some academics and some ONA adherents (and even some Satanist). It was certainly used by Richard Moult, Chloe Ortega, Richard Stirling and other individuals. From this perspective Anton Long is some sort of fictional character (this, again being oversimplifying, of course) whose traits and life story are compiled by bits of traits and lives of all the people who ever animated this character, who ever acted as him, plus some additional necessities required for such a creation. From yet another perspective, Anton Long is a Myth, archetypal figure, a magickal tool/ being, with certain functions and purposes.  ONA is philosophy of Anton Long – this means that, if we want to tie this philosophy and this name with any real person, we don’t have to tie it exclusively with Myatt, we can also say that ONA is a philosophy of Richard Moult, or Chloe Ortega, or anyone else who acted as Anton Long or helped with building of this character in some other way. We will not weight amount or quality of these influences – we are just saying that there never was only one real person behind Anton Long and his philosophy. This is one of the reasons why David Myatt always was, and still is able to claim that he is not Anton Long.
For long time now David Myatt has his own philosophy through which he mostly rejected his “white supermacist (again, very uninformed view of Myatt’s interpretation of National-Socialism) and occult interests”. Not only this – he also wrote in very insightful (thus honest) way about why and how he rejected his previous views and ideas, creating very personal philosophy which needs no body of followers in any way. Even if we assume, as it is widely accepted, that David Myatt was original animator behind  Anton Long, we cannot say that the two are the same. One is a real person, human being – the other … a being of some other kind.

The ONA is largely an incoherent, impractical and rambling philosophy full of hocus pocus and pseudo philosophical ideology with a strong focus of incitement to killing people, specifically their obsession with culling and human sacrifice.

“Incoherent” in this case simply means too complex and incomprehensible for the mind and soul of mundane Satanist. They see this philosophy as “incoherent”, contradictory and what else not, only because it is non-linear and is not depending upon anything  which common mundane can put in some tiny box of their “understanding” and stick a label to it. The fact is that their limitations are not allowing them to see the the big picture, so they perceive just bits and pieces of ONA, here and there, thus experiencing it as “incoherent”. Yes, We know that when they characterize ONA in this way, they are simply irritated by its elusiveness. Also, apparent incoherence and/or contradictions serve certain purposes, of which some are practical and others esoteric. You need a honest effort to put pieces together, to connect dots into coherent picture. This also being a part of the Way and of the process of learning.

We wonder what “Impractical” exactly means here? It is well known that entire ONA philosophy is very practical and oriented towards very practical action, deeds and goals. We remember another mundane Satanist writing about how he believes ONA is not real, simply because it expects from its adherents fulfillment of tasks fitting for Hercules. We imagine this Satanist being some obese, pimple-covered, American to whom climbing up the stairs seems to be a job for Hercules. If you ever read about physical requirements and training routines of some military special forces, you’ll realize that ONA tasks are child’s play in comparison to those. Some ONA tasks may look extremely difficult and impractical only to extremely weak, indulging Satanist who are often incapable of being functional and practical in their everyday mundane lives. Besides physical tasks what else one might find impossible or impractical? Grade rituals which demands no special requirements, items, ceremonies, formulas, or anything except your strong will to endure them? Insight Roles? Self-honesty (this one is probably very impractical for mundane Satanist)? Discipline (again, very impractical for this indulgent kind)? Culling (as well, so impractical for these obedient sheeple)? What?
When they say “impractical” they probably mean – hard, dangerous, risky, something which implies moving out of their comfort zone and/or shattering of their illusions about the world, endangering their safety. We guess that some of them, being occult fetishists they are, deem as “practical” some old-aeon fantasy systems, or some dusty grimoires with formulas requiring a hair from cross-eyed rabbit whose mother was eaten by the limping wolf at specific time of a year. At least you never hear them criticizing such nonsense this loudly. You never hear them criticizing deluded JoS kids who are killing Jehowa’s angels and making love with their demons every day, and what else not. They will accept them as Satanist. But they will always criticize ONA. Why? – Because they feel threatened. Although ONA is not, nor it ever was strictly Satanic – it actually embodies the very essence of what Satan is, as well as it puts Satanism into proper practical and esoteric context. All of this threatens mundane Satanist because it simply shakes and erode their safe fantasy game, it reveals lies they are convincing each others of, and reveals them for being sheeple they are.

Due to its incoherence and impracticality the ONA is unable to survive in its own right as a philosophy, so survives as like a parasite, trying to incorporate itself into hosts such as religions and political movements, but always with the clear agenda of inciting harm to life and property.

(More precise description of ONA would be a “virus” – highly adaptable, shape-shifting virus) At this point We realized that we are dealing with probably the most uninformed view of ONA out there (and which is, sadly even applauded by a number of sheeple disguised as Satanist).
Anyone who posses some esoteric understanding and some Aeonic perspective, should understand manipulation of religious, political, occult and art forms in context. Besides this, ONA possess that unbounded essence which can survive and live and be expressed through any form, already existent, or the new ones created. It can also survive with almost no form, wordless, shapeless, but simply Known and lived by some. Where would be any other group/philosophy/order/ religion without their strictly defined set of rules and forms? ONA adherent can be literally anything outwardly – they can be Buddhist, Muslim, Christian, Satanist, Pagan, Atheist, whatever you think of… but still they’ll be ONA. Can you claim this about anything else out there? Any strain of Satanism or some other philosophy/ religion/(sub-)culture? Same as an individual adherent is using such religious, political, occult and art forms for the sake of their own development, for the deepening of their insights and furthering of their own goals, through manipulation of such forms – ONA uses these forms for her own development and for the furthering of Aeonic goals. ONA doesn’t depend upon these forms and can change them as one changes their clothes. The person wearing different clothes is the same person, like the ONA is the same (some)thing under different guises. This simplicity is not understood by mundane Satanist and similar species, as they actually depend upon outer forms very much, and the very identity of the most of them depends even upon the clothes they are wearing. If they are not wearing black, or some satanic jewelry, or some satanic tattoo, their “satanism” will be suspicious. And this is the case with any religion/movement/(sub-)culture out there. Slaves of forms…

The ONA however had some success with Satanism, and convinced many Satanists for a while that ONA was a form of Satanism.

ONA, actually never tried to convince anyone that it is a form of Satanism. But We think this one is clear from what was written here previously, and elsewhere over the years. ONA just uses Satanism as a form. There is a difference. However, ONA IS Presencing of Satan, even if this is not exclusively accomplished through forms of Satanism as such.

Satanicviews in future blog posts will offer several objective arguments which will clearly show that Reverse Christianity and the Order Nine Angles has never been and will never be Satanism

Why bothering with providing arguments for the claim that ONA is not and has never been “Satanism”, if Order itself clearly supports this fact? This Satanist in his article even writes: “As ONA adherents freely admit ONA is not Satanism (…)”(??). Again, why bothering with this then? They can simply copy that quote from O9A 101 we provided here and they can rest their case. Every time when something like this surface up, We wonder – “How dumb they really are?”.

Finally, if ONA, in their opinion, is akin to Reverse Christianity, what’s about those mundane Satanist who writes dumb stuff like this latest article on satanicviews? What about their law-abiding-love -your -neighbor -and- his- property – Satanism? Is it not akin to Christianity itself? This type of Magian-muppet Satanism was well characterized in many ONA writings, such is the one provided here for the further reading (i.e. “A Heretical Satanism” as a part of influence-innovation compilation).

Fear not, dear dumb Satanist. ONA doesn’t want to take your mundane satanism from you. ONA doesn’t need your mundane satanism, nor it’s trying to fit into it, or to dominate it, or whatever you might be thinking it’s doing. And, again – you don’t even have to prove how ONA is not Satanism. Admittedly it is not. Just cool down and learn to make, and appreciate some subtle differences: ONA is not Satanism – but there IS ONA Satanism. ONA is not Satanism – but it IS and it has been, and it will be Presencing of Satan.

Zorya
und
Gnawers

Further Reading:

O9A Influence and Inovation

Occultism, National-Socialism and ONA

The Esoteric philosophy of the Order of Nine Angles, Introduciton

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43 thoughts on “Order of Nine Angles (ONA) confirm they are not Satanists

  1. I’m so mundane. Woe is me.

    It’s sad that this article illustrates how they have to proclaim how elite they are, just as any other cult. Are they trying to convince the reader, or themselves? When I read crap like this, I know the author is seriously deluded. Those that are elite don’t go around saying how elite they are.

  2. @Loose Cannon – You probably are mundane, but please can you tell me where exactly is the part where we have to proclaim how elite we are? Or, where we wrote “oh, how elite we are”? We are what we are, and we wrote about what ONA is (not). I really see no reason for this kind of comment from your side.

    @satanicviews – and what about your law-abiding-love-your-neighbour Satanism mentioned in this article? how come it is not RHP? What is the difference between your kind of mundane Satanism and any other RHP current? O9A, admittedly is not strictly LHP, so it might have RHP elements. But, do you know what is the difference between LHP and RHP at all? Do they differ by approach (form) or by the goal (essence)?

    • @Waren_Gnobe
      On a basic level, the LHP embraces the liberties, choice and the will to action those choices as an individual (individualism) as opposed to the RHP focus of diminishing or destruction of the individual (individualism) for the benefit of the collective or group.

      As a Satanist embracing individuality over group-minded slavery, I embrace many qualities of individualism as sacred, for instance the ability to make my own choices, and act upon those choices without restriction from external authorities; the liberty to follow my own definitions, ideas and beliefs without hindrance; in all matters relating to my own body, rejecting any external authority control or say over my own body. In opposing aggressively interference of external authority in those things that I hold sacred, I hold to the principle that if I expect others to respect my sacred space, then I will respect their space. Be under no illusion that this writer is not the type that follows the notion of “turning the other cheek”, forgiving harm done to the individual, and other foolish Christian and group-minded notions of sacrificing self for the good of the collective. If an ONA associate threatens my life, or steals my car, I will express like for like attitudes and action, I will do harm to those who do harm to me, the basic essence of lex talionis. Likewise, harm done to me, results in me hunting those down, and inflicting a satisfactory appropriate eye for an eye, tooth for the tooth, revenge. In addition, if the rabid dog bites, it is also a question of preventing harm again, which means the response might go beyond merely balancing out the wrong done, but preventing the threat in a more permanent way.

      • In my opinion ONA is a meld of both RHP and LHP in a way. Individualism you are talking about is very much present and emphasized, being that the Way is in essence individual discovering of Wisdom. There is no formal authority of any kind, except for the Authority of Individual Judgement as one of the fundamental axioms of this philosophy. However, on the other hand there is a notion of “collective”, or strong tribal attitude, as you put it, expressed through Law of Kindred Honour, and beyond – there is a consideration for the species as whole, and yet beyond.. Or how Christos Beest expressed it in Eira, saying that – Individual evolution is not goal in itself, but individual evolution in synchronicity with evolution of species, and evolution of Cosmos. This is why ONA is SInisterly-Numinous Tradition, as it includes both dark and light, evil and good, individual and collective, LHP and RHP. This is why it sometimes seems to be incoherent, contradictory etc. This is because people are used to perceive, experience and live this ONE Life only through false divisions of such abstractions, forgetting that everything is dual and has its dual nature, but at the same time everything is whole in itself beyond (but based upon) this duality. So, search for genuine Wisdom and realization of reality should, or must include knowing and experience of both of these polarities existing in everything. And this is the whole point of “sinisterly-numinous”. While Satanist or Christian are focused upon, or enslaved by one or another polarity, ONA people are trying to, sort of, expand their focus and accept reality as it is, beyond false dichotomy. While you will act upon “eye for an eye” attitude, and Christian will act upon “turn the other cheek” attitude, someone ONA would be able to do both and still be ONA. this is just one example of why ONA represents genuine freedom – because you are not limited. For example, if you don’t act upon “eye for an eye” you are not good Satanist, if Christian don’t act upon “turn the other cheek” he is not good Christian. In reality, we both know that there is no ideal Satanist, or ideal Christian, that the former sometimes do turn the other cheek, or are able to forgive, and the later is very often vindictive. And this simple reality is what we are talking about.

        Having in mind what I wrote above – the reason why, in past decades ONA Satanism, Sinister/ LHP aspects of the Tradition, were emphasized is because those aspects, in their genuine form, were something lacking in lives of individual and this civilization. In the future, when Satanic/LHP doctrines and philosophies originating from these will be predominant within this civilization, it is likely that “RHP” aspects of Traditions would be emphasized. But beneath this, ONA is and always was in perfect sinisterly-numinous equilibrium, outwardly acting “imbalanced” with certain intention and purpose which should be clear from what I said here.

      • @satanicviews: This is my personal view. But I think that in some way you are actually correct, even from ONA perspective – when you say that the individual either is LHP or RHP. Because, observed in practical terms, in terms of personal development through grade rituals and tasks, or through strong personal experiences in life you are, at moments, along that timeline, either “LHP” or “RHP”, either sinister or numinous, in different interval of times. You, me, anyone.. remember what I said about (non-existing) ideal satanist or ideal christian. Both of them, at times, under some circumstances are living their opposite. That is something so simple, and known to anyone actually. But, oh that awful sickness.. “If honesty were suddenly introduced into American life, the whole system would collapse!” – This applies to, I would say, all of the human life, of every creed and nation.

    • Yes, ONA is a philosophical movement, the philosophy of David Myatt, and his followers, who have extended that philosophy with their own contributions. The ONA has at certain points in its life created groups, such as the most recent ONA 3.0 under the direction of Chloe Ortega, which is now disbanded.

    • whether ONA is organization or not is polemical. Even if it is, I prefer it to be just a philosophy/movement. However, there were and there are groups/organizations/orders inspired and guided by this philosophy. If by Anton Long you mean David Myatt, he never was a racist, nor his Ethical National-Socialism was racist. But, again, mundanes are talking, making assumptions without any previous study

      • Waren you are the mundane and it is obvious that you have not done you’re research on Anton Long because if you did you would see that he was heavily involved with racial groups like combat 18. Anton also became a Muslim who expressed Terrorist ideals. But as always people like you who claim to be part of the o9a are just acting as pseudo intellectuals and that is to be expected.

      • @”Pope”, I had enough opportunities to be convinced how you must be one of the dumbest out there. You’ll never understand anything. Once again.. Convinced. And once again, I will just ignore you.

      • I observe that although ONA 3.0 is disbanded, those that follow ONA ideas organize themselves into mini-groups they refer to as nexions, and refer to as gangs, collectives, tribes etc.

      • You are correct about this one as well. People organize themselves. It is, as said, a philosophy, you may even say ideology, if you like. Also, nothing unknown or ‘strange’. those who adhere to different ideologies, philosophies, usually also organize themselves into – whatever forms of gathering, at their will. Do you Satanist need some central authority to organize you in whatever manner you choose to do so? Of course you don’t. However, I’m still unable to grasp this “disbanding” misconception. What’s there to “disband”? A philosophy? How?

      • Chloe Ortega has argued that the ONA philosophy has been given to her, “owned” by her in some manner. Ortega in association with others created a group, with its own forum etc, and invented a new version of ONA, so-called version 3.0. Ortega’s intellectual skills apparently did not match her people skills, and the group disintegrated. The group was disbanded around the same time Ortega quit her position as “outer representative” of the ONA, and deleted most of her ONA blogs.

      • She never argued such a thing. She actually tried very much to explain what I’m trying to explain here. Even after her “resignation” she wrote about ONA in such a manner, actually arguing with some o9a people who wanted o9a to be more “centralized” in a way. I’m not sure if these writings are still available online. One was titled “Newbies guide to ONA” and the other one was “What ONA is and is not”. On some occasions she just tried to provide some legitimacy for her position of Outer Representative. But she never tried to portrait herself as a “leader” or “owner” of ONA. In fact, during her appointment the model of ONA as philosophy and leaderless movement was emphasized. And she didn’t invent a new version of ONA, she just gave perhaps some original contribution, as Outer Representatives were supposed to do. ONA forum where she was a moderator was created long before her. After her resignation I was also moderator of that forum, then some other people in last year or two, and it was just recently closed by its owner and admin – Dark Logos. So, nothing ever “disintegrated”. Things simply move forward in whatever manner. It is just that spotlight was focused on Chloe, and she was very loud, and was a carrier of most of propaganda and politics of the Order. Same as she was just moderator on that forum, but not the admin, she also was “moderator” of outer o9a for a while, but not the “owner”. The only possible ‘owner’ of o9a in any way is the Order/ Inner o9a, or as Anna would suggest Myatt and close circle of friends.

      • Thanks for your clarification on the roles played by Chloe Ortega in relation to other associates of the ONA. Does Chloe still have anything to do with ONA and its administration?

      • Well, I said nothing new. People just have to catch up with some things. As for her current involvement with “administration” I would rather not discuss that one now. But, she is still active, still writing etc. She once made a promise that she will write for ONA for the next 40 years. It feels like she’s trying to keep that promise

  3. You know, the whole “Mundanes are talking without doing any previous study” thing is really cute. I love it when people try to defend their arguments by insulting their critics’ intelligence. It would help the ONA’s argument if their literature were actually written according to some academic standard, using internal citations for its various claims and providing extensive references to back them up. Without this, there’s precious little “study” anyone can really do on the ONA from the outside, which from an academic perspective makes it highly suspect. Refusing to back up one’s claims and then bitching about others not being “smart” enough to “understand” those claims is really just the pseudo-intellectual adult equivalent to grade school playground posturing. And while I’m sure ONA prides itself on using this sort of “misdirection-by-mystification” to befuddle gullible teenagers, those of us with experience in academic publishing can see right through it.

    Also, there are numerous discursive spaces in which people can identify as being more than one religion or spirituality at the same time. The Universal Life Church, the Universal Unitarian Church, Ár nDraíocht Féin are prime examples; and hell, Vodun, Santeria and Umbanda practitioners often consider themselves Roman Catholic at the same time. Discordians and Chaos Magicians are also free to identify with any other religion or subculture they like at any given time. So no, this idea isn’t unique to the ONA at all. It can’t claim any kind of originality or special status for itself based on this idea.

    It’s also funny to think that ONA members claim not to really be Satanists, but apparently know better about Satanism than Satanists do. That makes about as much sense to me as when Pat Robertson or Bob Larson say it. Seems to me the only thing this person says that isn’t coated in the scent of fresh grade-A bullshit is when they describe the ONA as a “virus.” There just isn’t much more to say after that, is there?

    • Well said.

      The material that the ONA have produced is a chaotic mess, without any effort towards quality control and order. If they wanted to be taken seriously on an academic level, the ONA would have at least developed a peer review system to anything written, then flagged up what was worthy of consideration for current and future associates of their movement.

      You are right, from my own experience and knowledge, I see nothing that is unique or original about any of the ideas of the ONA. For instance their form/essence idea is a common idea mentioned by Aristotle, Plato, Leonardo da Vinci and Thomas Aquinas to name a few.

      Their description of ONA as like a virus, confirms my observation that they are a parasitic philosophy.

  4. Greetings,
    While it is definitely possible that there exist many people behind the nym “Anton Long”, it’s also possible, even probable, that Anton Long is actually David Myatt. There are many Myatt’s personal footprints left on the bulk of the O9A MSS. The whole system of the 7fold Way with its grades, rituals and secret tasks is based in large part on Myatt’s personal experience, his life as a vagabond, National Socialist, Muslim, nurse, monk etc, his travels and his interest in Classical and occult literature. In Rounwytha tradition, you can see Myatt’s life as a worker on a farm, his love of nature and rural life, his appreciation of women and his disgust for the life in the city. I’m aware of the fact that the official propaganda claims Rounwytha is a secret pagan tradition but, especially after reading Myatt’s letters, I suspect it was born in his head. The whole Us vs Them rhetoric employed by the O9A comes from National Socialism and the Sinister Code of Kindred Honor is based on the Code of Aryan Honor written by Myatt when he supported strongly National Socialism.

    Anyway, the only people that know whether Anton Long is one person or several persons are the Inner O9A; Myatt’s friends who know him personally and they have never been fully honest with the general public, and that includes also academic researchers and people who associate themselves with the O9A. On the contrary, they try to create around Myatt an aura of mystery and also some sort of mythical aura around the O9A, desperately seeking its supposed ancient pagan roots. At the same time, in an old and quite forgotten text “Reductio ad Absurdum”, which no longer appears on the O9A semi-official websites, AL explains that the whole O9A philosophy is based on his life experience, his readings and his travels. Part of it, he inherited from one small LHP group and later developed in a creative manner.

    The O9A philosophy is full of contradictions and sure sure it can all be a big Esoteric Test, a big big sinister Game and Trial by Fire but it can also be that Myatt throughout his life changed his views as often as he changed his panties, hence the many inconsistencies. That and and the simple fact that human nature is full of contradictions and double-think is not that rare. Myatt has always been an idealist, he still is. This can be a reason why he quickly got disappointed with the political ideologies and religions he got involved in. For example, he gave up National Socialism because his comrades didn’t meet his idealistic expectations. When questioned by the police, they preferred covering up their asses instead of acting in what Myatt thought was an honorable way. Not to mention the death of his fiancee which contributed to his rejection of extremism and development of the numinous philosophy.

    Whether his regret of the past is sincere is not really certain. What can you say about the person on the basis of his writings? He is an incurable idealist, albeit an extremely creative one. The official O9A bulletin explains this by enantiodromia; melding the sinister amoral life with the numinous life and virtues, like empathy, humility and compassion. On the other hand, what prevents a Satanist from having those so-called numinous qualities? Can’t a Satanist be cruel to his enemies and kind to friends? Can’t he engage in charities, nurse his children or elders and, generally, be empathetic? I consider this O9A division into sinister and numinous as very artificial. Satanism is not just “Might is Right”. That’s an oversimplification.

      • Thanks for your comments Anna.

        What is beyond doubt is that ONA is a philosophy originally created by David Myatt, and that Myatt has and most likely continues to post under different pseudonyms in relation to his philosophy. It is my opinion that Anton Long was originally the pseudonym of David Myatt, and that it is likely thereafter he has allowed others to use it to post ONA-related material.

    • Greetings @Anna:
      Of course, we don’t disagree on probability that Myatt is Anton Long. Even if others used that nym, he probably identifies himself with it and with that character, pretty much. And this is, of course also a part of “propaganda”, as you would probably refer to it, and as it is probably known to you. What you wrote in your first passage is very plausible, and to an extent very true. However, I must say that it is, again, an ‘oversimplification’ when you write that whole 7-fold way is simply based upon Myatt’s life and experiences. As evident to those who know anything about such things, 7-fold way is in its essence founded upon septenary alchemical traditions. Something much older than Myatt’s life experiences. Don’t you agree? Grades of the 7-fold way simply corresponds with 7 stages of alchemical work, as also mentioned in NAOS. Some of these stages were described even prior to Myatt’s experiences of them, not only in NAOS, but also in those mentioned, ages old, septenary systems, in symbolic way. From this perspective it is more likely that Myatt tried to live his life according to these stages/ grades – more likely than the reverse process you are suggesting. His life just being an example of this alchemical work, his philosophy being just modern interpretation of this very old mystery. Also, tasks suggested, based on his experiences, are only that – suggestions, not obligatory. An example, as I said, and as it has been said in many ONA MSS. As for the Islam, Satanism and National-Socialism, he simply recognized them as genuine heresy they are – heresy which has its role in this Great Work of Alchemy, on individual and collective levels. To be honest, this modern interpretation of Great Work of Alchemy is something which drew me and other Gnawers to o9a. Even Mistress Zorya openly stated this years ago, by saying how she never was interested in Satanism actually. You can find this statement here: https://abglodge.wordpress.com/2013/05/18/meetings-above-time-part-i/

      Yes, he is an idealist. But he certainly tried very hard to live up to his ideals. He tried to live what he preach. You can’t say the same about many out there.

      • Waren, I don’t deny hermetic influences, this is why I mentioned his readings. Myatt is a very erudite guy. However, from the way the Inner O9A propagandists portray this stuff, one could as well assume there was the Order of Nine Angles at the time of dinosaurs. If you try very hard, you can trace the Temple of Set to the Ancient Egypt and claim the pharaohs were the first Setians. Everyone is aware of Aquino’s inspirations but exaggerating things make them look stupid. Perhaps, I’ll quote the text I was talking about:

        “He (AL) was fortunate perhaps in spending most of his childhood and early youth in Africa and the Far East where, in the former, he grew up among people who believed in pagan practices and witchcraft, and, in the latter, he came in contact with many and various traditions including LHP Taoist magic and Martial Arts. All this formed a somewhat unusual education (there is no claim to being “Initiated” into any form) and provided a continuing interest in esoteric arts. This curiosity, interest together with his keen intellect, enthusiasm and zest for danger led him to, in later youth, to not only seek out LHP groups in Europe but also into many interesting and diverse experiences, and in the late sixties he was Initiated into some LHP groups/underground Satanic Temples. His diverse experiences then and later (some dangerous, some at variance with prevailing social dogma, many dark, some heretical) provided useful background for an Occult and personal synthesis and led to him taking responsibility for a small LHP group. The teachings of this group were rather garbled, full of mystifications and occasional insights, but they did provide some basis for creative extension. Thus, the new synthesis that was the seven-fold way was created. The original LHP group had no historical significance and did not claim among its former members any person of significance on any level – it was simply a reclusive circle of a few individuals oriented toward the Black Arts whose teachings (such as they were) centred around a septenary approach to magickal alchemy and a “mythology” about the Dark Gods…”

        The O9A is a Myatt’s child, it’s a product of his imagination though others inspired by this guy add to this tradition and Myatt himself was inspired by others before him. But it was simple. He just read about this stuff in the books, traveled a lot, talked to various people… and that combined with his life experience gave birth to the O9A. Much more probable explanation than… A long time ago, long ago, so long ago that no one can remember, somewhere in Shropshire… there existed a secret pagan rural tradition (Rounwytha), transmitted only aurally… and Myatt discovered it while cycling around the neighborhood. Seriously.

        The more you read about Myatt, the more of him you see in the O9A. And while it’s a fact that everyone stands on the shoulders of giants, there are desperate attempts to legitimize the ONA by desperately searching its ancient roots. I mean… it’s quite obvious they are trying too hard.

      • I must say we agree on absolutely everything except for that Rounwytha tradition. I don’t know why that part of the story is not possible. It happens that in some parts of Serbia and Bosnia there is still alive ancient Slavic witchcraft tradition. the one which is older than Slavic paganism, or any form of organized religion as such. We are talking about thousands of years of continuity. We are talking about something that emerged from ancient times of shamanism. When you strip off this Slavic tradition of religious and cultural influences, you are left with something very similar to rounwytha tradition. there are some serious studies written in Serbian on this subject. From these studies and from personal experience we were able to see great amount of similarity between this ancient Slavic witchcraft and Rounwytha tradition. these witches, similar to rounwytha have no teachings, pantheons, systems of initiation etc. They also are simply initiated by the Nature herself, they learn about plants and animals directly from these forms of life, and are capable of exhibiting strange and amazing “supernatural” powers of which contemporary occultists can only dream about. If ancient Slavic witchcraft was able to survive for unimaginably long period of time, and if similar traditions can be found in many different parts of the world, I don’t know why British islands would be exception.Don’t know exactly what is the case with Poland, are there any traces of this tradition still alive there.

      • I’ve been online for almost 30 years — there were forums and chat board networks before the internet — and first read about the proscribed ONA circa 1990. When I first happened upon some actual ONA writings online about 15 years ago, I was surprised to discover that it wasn’t about human sacrifice or neo-Nazism (you really had to dig to find anything remotely like that), and wasn’t really recognizable as “Satanism” at all.

        I think the ONA’s writings (like all effective occult materials) are like a metaphysical ink blot test: you see in it some pieces of yourself, what you are seeking, what makes you feel vulnerable, what you need mixed with what you fear. Initiation is supposed to be about getting your buttons pushed,

        In a way it’s amusing as Hel to watch people look only where Michael Aquino pointed his proscribing finger decades ago concerning the ONA. It’s a testament to his skill at misdirection that people not even born when the ONA was first proscribed are still passing on this meme without bothering to look for what lies beneath it.

  5. @Waren,
    I’m not an expert on ancient Slavic religions but the rather primitive polytheism is what comes to my mind as far as Poland is concerned. Besides, the worship of trees or the moon is not exactly what empathy means in Rounwytha.

    General comment:
    I’ve just read the recent article here:
    https://regardingdavidmyatt.wordpress.com/2015/08/26/culling-and-the-o9a/

    And take, for example this: “However, fairly recently, some self-professed modern satanists – unaffiliated with existing satanic groups, including the O9A, but undoubtedly influenced by the O9A’s consistent and long-term advocacy of culling – have begun to question the ‘party line’ of groups such as Church of Satan and the Temple of Set in respect of culling, with a few self-professed modern satanists affirming the necessity, and the natural justice, of removing detrimental human beings.”

    Do these people know anything about what they call “modern Satanism”? The removal of detrimental human beings, those detrimental to a Satanist, is there in the Satanic Bible. It’s not only via the magical means (the destruction ritual) but also via manipulation i.e., lesser magic. One can bring doom upon an enemy by not necessarily cutting his throat. There is also some sort of ethics that go together with Lex Talionis though it’s only a practical suggestion, not a requirement for some kind of diabolical initiation.

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